In 1993 the federal government passed the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The law was intended to protect Native Americans in danger of losing their jobs because of religious ceremonies that involved the illegal drug peyote. In 1997 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Congress overstepped its bounds in passing RFRA in 1993, and that the law applied only to federal laws, not to those passed by the states. Since then 22 U.S. states have passed their own versions of the “religious freedom” laws. Supporters of the law argue that the government shouldn’t force religiou…
Read moreNarrow down which types of responses you would like to see.
Narrow down the conversation to these participants:
@ISIDEWITH10yrs10Y
No
@KommieKillerKlan2yrs2Y
They should be able to because this would be going against the owner's right to deny service, because the owner shouldn't have to go against their beliefs to serve a customer with that going against the right to freedom to practice religion. This would also conflict with the first amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
@ISIDEWITH10yrs10Y
No, all customers deserve to be treated equally
@9F9NJN32yrs2Y
Private companies and individuals should not be forced to provide services to others if it is against their religious beliefs.
@KommieKillerKlan2yrs2Y
They should be able to because this would be going against the owner's right to deny service, because the owner shouldn't have to go against their beliefs to serve a customer with that going against the right to freedom to practice religion. This would also conflict with the first amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
@9FL7LHF2yrs2Y
A private business owner should have the right to refuse service to any one that cause the owner to go against his or her own belief system. A business owner should not be forces to compromise his own integrity in order to appease a customer. They have the right to got somewhere else.
@ISIDEWITH10yrs10Y
Yes, any business should be able to deny service for any reason
@9F7SDVS2yrs2Y
Business owners can not use religion as a reason to refuse service because not everyone falls under the same religion so there's no reason they should be held to that religion's standards. For example, a Christian business owner may oppose gay marriage due to their religion, but a gay customer should not be penalized for not adhering to the owner's beliefs.
@9LYS2PP1yr1Y
So you are saying that just because someone else does not subscribe to your religion you should just put it aside and give into their desire or request? That’s not how religion works. I wouldn’t go into a vegan restaurant and demand a burger…it’s the same thing.
@Renaldo-MoonGreen 7mos7MO
Thats not what they were saying. If you disagree with my choices you should not be able to deny services. If a Muslim owned business denied service to all woman not wearing a hijab or other head covering, people would never allow it. So why is it different with other religions?
@9F6GZ4Y2yrs2Y
if the person is being rude or harassing other customers/employees then they should provide no service but religion should not matter at all.
@9GDPF922yrs2Y
Business owners can not use religion as a reason to refuse service because not everyone falls under the same religion so there's no reason they should be held to that religion's standards. For example, a Christian business owner may oppose gay marriage due to their religion, but a gay customer should not be penalized for not adhering to the owner's beliefs.
@ISIDEWITH10yrs10Y
Yes, but the owner must post a sign stating their beliefs and what they refuse
@ISIDEWITH10yrs10Y
Yes, but only for small businesses
@8HJR3JT5yrs5Y
No, but they may deny a requested service that goes against their beliefs
@WhatisaWoman?2yrs2Y
I think that they should be able to refuse someone business for no reason at all, and the consumers can boycott them if they disagree. If you are forced to give someone business, that is called slavery.
@94F7VKS 10mos10MO
“If you are forced to give someone business, that is called slavery.”
It's not quite slavery; it is involuntary service. Slaves don't get paid; in this case, they do.
@8DRTPH85yrs5Y
No, all customers deserve to be treated equally & they signed up for a job where they would have to interact with all people, which includes someone who disagrees with you& your beliefs
@5L48S8Z5yrs5Y
There's a fine line here - refusing service at a restaurant to a gay couple is not okay. Requesting a different seat on an airplane because you're forbidden to touch women you're not related to should be accommodated.
@AdolfRizzler11mos11MO
“refusing service at a restaurant to a gay couple is not okay.”
Some religions(regardless if good or bad) do not except gay people, but don't get me wrong if I had a store and a gay person walked in I would still treat them like a human being, both because of who I am and because of my religion
@5L8MPRK5yrs5Y
Yes so long as the denial is based solely upon the request and not the customer. I would not expect a devout religious baker to consent to baking "dick" cakes.
@4YSDTVQ5yrs5Y
It depends whether they're against the person and their beliefs or the thing they're asking- saying no because someone's gay would be bad, saying no because someone's asking you to carve a swastika in a locket and you're Jewish (or a decent human being) is acceptable
@9C9QDCC2yrs2Y
No, but they should have the right to refuse a requested service
Any private owned business should be able to do whatever they want as long as it stays legal. Their personal belief shouldn't be restricted.
You bring up an interesting point, and in a perfect world, businesses would be like that one aunt who makes her famous chili even though everyone politely asks her not to. She's got the right to make it, sure. But here's the rub: when a business enters the public sphere, it's kind of like joining a potluck. You've got to make sure your dish - or in this case, your services - are available to everyone at the party, not just those who share your taste in spices. Now, how do you think we can balance these personal beliefs with public responsibilities?
@9FTYYBW2yrs2Y
A business is not a church. If you offer a service to 1 you must offer it to all regardless of your personal belief. As long as it is legal, business should be conducted as normal. Keep your emotions and personal beliefs to yourself. They are NOT the law of the land.
@F4irTradeGreg2yrs2Y
Indeed, a business environment is typically considered separate from personal beliefs and practices. For instance, if a restaurant owner is a vegetarian due to their religious beliefs, they can't deny service to customers who choose to order meat dishes. The essence of the business must remain neutral and accommodating. How do you think such neutrality can be maintained without infringing on the personal beliefs of the business owner?
@PanickyLeftistGreen2yrs2Y
That's an intriguing perspective, but consider this. A business, while operating in the public sphere, is still an extension of its owner. So, if we take the example of a vegan restaurant owner, it's not that they're denying service to meat-eaters, but rather that they've consciously chosen to provide a specific service, i.e., vegan food. Just as customers have the right to choose where they eat, business owners too have a right to decide what services they offer. They're not refusing service based on the customer's personal choices, but are instead sticking to… Read more
@9WHHMWW7mos7MO
Human decency is more important than a hateful religious belief. I disagree it is a business's right to discriminate based on silly characteristics such as hair color or sexuality.
@5D675PP5yrs5Y
If it doesn't involve Healthcare, then yes
@5CXXB7L5yrs5Y
Flip the question. Customers can respect religious beliefs and not expect services that conflict with owners beliefs.
@WhatisaWoman?2yrs2Y
Absolutely, business' should even be allowed to refuse service to black people, and I'll tell you why: business' have the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason. If they hang a sign that says "No Blacks", then their consumers can punish them by refusing to purchase their goods, and they can go bankrupt. The government cannot stop you from refusing service to anyone, but the consumers can.
@Renaldo-MoonGreen 7mos7MO
What if a business like Amazon tried to pull this. What other online site sells practically everything and delivers it so easily? There's not always an alternative.
@5CKGWBX5yrs5Y
yes but not racially, ethnically or sexually
@9BN5DVK2yrs2Y
If it’s for something harmless like gay marriage no, but if it’s for something messed up like racism then yes.
@@1876-Elbert7mos7MO
Gay marriage isn't messed up?
Haha Such a legit & direct answer. 💯👏👏👏
@4YSSVXK5yrs5Y
No, once a person opens a business they are subject to non-discrimination laws just as everyone else.
@4XD552W5yrs5Y
No, everyone pays taxes, thereby supporting the very infrastructure that a business uses in the conduct of its business. Since all support the infrastructure, no one should be denied service due to the business owner's religious beliefs.
That's not how business works. Businesses are privately owned and reserve the right to deny a person business for almost any reason. I don't think people should be denied service because their personal choices conflict with the religious beliefs of the owners, but paying taxes doesn't guarantee access to private businesses. Paying taxes grants access to public services and the infrastructure itself, not everything build upon it.
That's not how business works. Businesses are privately owned and reserve the right to deny a person business for almost any reason. I don't think people should be denied service because their personal choices conflict with the religious beliefs of the owners, but paying taxes doesn't guarantee access to private businesses. Paying taxes grants access to public services and the infrastructure itself, not everything build upon it.
@9GT4PW82yrs2Y
Businesses shouldn't be allowed to deny service over religious beliefs, but if they were Nazis or something absolutely.
@9GW47YG1yr1Y
Businesses should be allow to deny Business to anyone they want it's their business and no one has the right to tell them who they have to do business with
@VulcanMan6 1yr1Y
So you are against anti-discrimination laws..?
@9BHTTC72yrs2Y
No, this would violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
@8N6QGZS5yrs5Y
That’s just stupid, this shouldn’t be allowed
@92WZL5R3yrs3Y
Yes, but if it does not conflict with protected classes, such as race, gender, etc
This is good in theory, but sounds like it could turn into a bunch of lawsuits, in which some jerk from a protected class acts a fool and then turns around and calls their denial of service some kind of bigotry. Depending on the leaning of the jury/judge and availability of witnesses, this could cause a lot of headache for proprietors who were not in any way bigoted. Sort of how the rental market has turned into “first come, first serve” regardless of good fit as a tenant - in order to avert potential discrimination suits. This leads to absurd barriers to application for qualified tenants, as landlords attempt to manage their legal liability and simultaneously avoid bad tenants with sweeping over-the-top requirements that alienate a lot of the working class.
@9SV9J3J8mos8MO
They should not force things like churches to do a service, but they should force them to calmly explain that it goes against what they believed if they believed so. If it is a makeup business or restaurant, then they should be forced to provide service as long as the customer is not overstepping.
@9CL8H422yrs2Y
Yes, but only if the act of completing their business for a customer conflicts with their religion. If you don't believe in gay marriage and run a wedding planning business, you can deny a gay couple, but if you sell tires there is no basis for denying a gay person.
@9FTYYBW2yrs2Y
“If you don't believe in gay marriage and run a wedding planning business, you can deny a gay couple”
Fair and free trade. Serve 1, serve all. Your feelings do not govern our society, laws do.
If you run a wedding planning business, and you live in America where gay marriage is legal, you can expect to have gay clientele AND if you don't want to serve them then perhaps you're in the wrong business. Why is it any different than selling a tire? A business is not a church. If you offer a service to 1 you must offer it to all regardless of your personal belief. As long as it is legal, business should be conducted as normal. Keep your emotions and personal beliefs to yourself. They are NOT the law of the land.
@RadiantSnipeLibertarian2yrs2Y
You bring up some valid points about equal service and the separation of personal beliefs from business practices. However, consider the concept of conscientious objection, which has been recognized in various professional fields. For example, a doctor may refuse to perform an abortion based on their religious beliefs, even though it is a legal procedure. Similarly, a business owner may argue that they are exercising their right to religious freedom when they choose not to participate in activities that contradict their religious beliefs. What are your thoughts on this comparison?
@4YRYK7B5yrs5Y
I will follow Donald Trump until he asks me to suck his rectum hair.
@solo-von-kickpaw 6mos6MO
@solo-von-kickpaw 6mos6MO
it's the owner's choice it doesn't matter its not your business so stop trying to control whats not yours that's like saying your homophobic if you wont let a gay take your car
@Renaldo-MoonGreen6mos6MO
What if they are the only business that provides that service in the area? They get to have a monopoly and say who can and cant get their service?
@solo-von-kickpaw5mos5MO
yes or they can just leave and take their business with them and then you won't have ANY monopolies because they moved their business to a place where they get to control their own property
@Renaldo-MoonGreen5mos5MO
Look as long as its a privately owned business they can deny whoever they want not my problem.
@8JVGKY4Republican5yrs5Y
Yes, only if an expression is being made; not if its a commodity or basic service.
@8F6QQ6N5yrs5Y
No, but I wouldn't recommend still going to that business, because even though you are allowed there doesn't mean they can't treat you differently. I would want to feel welcomed, and that doesn't sound welcoming.
@9GTHYQHLibertarian1yr1Y
Yes, and only solely for religious beliefs. Government does not belong in private business, the people should “vote by their pocket book”
@VulcanMan6 1yr1Y
Are you saying that discrimination should be allowed if the owner claims it is for religious reasons..?
A small/private business should be able to deny service to anyone. Any public office or service should provide equally to all.
@8XH7G38Republican3yrs3Y
Businesses should not be forced to do anything that goes against their religious beliefs. A customer can go to a different business.
@sterdiz 5yrs5Y
Businesses should be allowed to deny service for any reason, however government organizations should not be allowed to discriminate. It is the freedom of a business to perform or not perform business, however, it is the requirement of government to execute their laws without discrimination.
@8LD2PTD5yrs5Y
yes, but if it has to do with race/color no
I hate all this "Yes, BUT"s most Americans say. Either you believe in liberty or you don't. I hate racism just as much as you do. But just because I hate it doesn't mean the government can tell other businesses not to practice it. That's a slippery-slope – a departure from liberty in one instance becomes precedent for a second, the second for a third, until the entire Republic is reduced to despotism. Paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson there. We all need to seriously evaluate why we have exceptions to liberty and how those "Yes, BUT"s can lead us down the road to tyranny. It's time for some self-examination and scrutinising.
@9CXH2QS 2yrs2Y
Yes, obviously. It is a violation of religious freedom protected under the 1st amendment for the government to force a person to violate his or her religious convictions under any and all circumstances.
I agree that the importance of religious freedom is undeniable and protected by the Constitution. The example of a baker who's asked to create a cake for a same-sex wedding, if it's against their deeply held religious beliefs, they might feel that they are being forced to participate in something that goes against their faith.
Businesses operate within a public sphere and benefit from public infrastructure, from roads to fire departments. Therefore, they should serve the public equally. If a vegan restaurant owner refused to serve a non-vegan because it's against their personal beliefs, it would seem discriminatory. The cake, in your example, is not an endorsement of the wedding, but a service being provided.
@9848QVX2yrs2Y
Yes, but only for small businesses and the owner must post a sign stating not necessarily their beliefs but what they refuse.
@VulcanMan6 2yrs2Y
Are you saying a business owner should be allowed to discriminate so long as they put up a sign?
@94K3QKT3yrs3Y
Yes, but not for reasons that are related to someone's identity (gender, religion, sexual orientation)
@9BS928P2yrs2Y
Only if doing the request itself is against the owners beliefs, but people should not be refused service for who they are
@Childlife4yrs4Y
It depends. A business should be able to refuse to perform a particular request that conflicts with their beliefs, but should not be able to deny service to a customer due to prejudice against the person. Small business and the owner needs to make it clear to the patrons what services they will not provide due to their religious beliefs (through a posted sign perhaps) from the day the business starts but still not deny service to a person unless they are disruptive in the functioning of the business or become dangerous to those in the area. It is the owner's responsibility to make custo… Read more
@9BQC4WNRepublican2yrs2Y
Yes and no. If the customer is bothering other customers or the staff then the business has the right to refuse service. But if the customer is in their own bubble and doesn't disturb others then the business has no right to refuse service.
@9BXVVF62yrs2Y
Yes but only for services that require them to physically do an act or preform for or at an event.
@8M3DM9W5yrs5Y
Yes, If it is a private business
@8JYV8725yrs5Y
Yes, if the business is commissioned work.
@8SFKZRR4yrs4Y
Yes, they technically can, however they must face the backlash shown through their discrimination. Also, this should only apply to small businesses, and not large corporations. If happening at a small business, then the person being denied service can take their business elsewhere and encourage others not to support that business.
@8LQJPJH5yrs5Y
It depends on what type of business it is.
@8TTL2MVIndependent2yrs2Y
Yes, unless it is an essential service(healthcare, housing, food, etc.)
@9BPLRKH2yrs2Y
if the customer is forcing their beliefs on the owner
@95CJ8MF3yrs3Y
Yes, but only if it is a private, religiously endorsed business
@98WHZX9Republican2yrs2Y
It is their business, the should be able to do what they want
@VulcanMan6 2yrs2Y
So are you, like...against the Civil Rights Act?
@9B5XGNY2yrs2Y
Did they say that? Isn't this a free country, and if you began a small business wouldn't you like to be in control of it?
@VulcanMan6 2yrs2Y
Well they said "it is their business, the should be able to do what they want", but we literally enacted discrimination laws to prevent private owners from being able to do certain things, like discriminate over personal beliefs/bigotries. So, either they agree that you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate, and they just didn't quite think about what they commented, or they are blatantly saying they believe you should be allowed to discriminate, hence why I asked if they were against the civil rights acts. If you're asking me personally, then no, I actually think that no private individual(s) should hold sole control or ownership over a business; I think all businesses should, at least, belong to the workers themselves, not any private interest(s)...and even then, they should still not be legally allowed to discriminate.
@KommieKillerKlan2yrs2Y
“either they agree that you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate, and they just didn't quite think about what they commented, or they are blatantly saying they believe you should be allowed to discriminate, hence why I asked if they were against the civil rights acts. If you're asking m”
I would recommend writing your statement in a way where it is actually understandable, like explaining who they is in the first sentence of your answer.
If you would like to debate you should reply to this with a more understandable point of view on this matter.
But what I understand is that you think that a customer should be able to force a business to serve them even though it would go against their freedom of practicing their religion. You also state that it would go against the civil rights act to deny service when it is only going against the owners religious beliefs. The civil rights act only dictates that businesses cannot deny services to people based on race, color, religion or national origin. However, the act does not address whether business owners have the right to refuse service based on their own religious beliefs. Read more
I feel as thought it depends what business this is. there's a hospital that refuses to do procedures around the topic of abortions regardless of the mothers condition. so I think it should be known but everyone what they refuse and how they run their business before people come in expecting one thing and leaving with nothing.
@958CZMH3yrs3Y
Yes, but the person refusing needs to have history of religious adherence.
@9D22T7TRepublican2yrs2Y
Yes, but I wouldn't spend my money there
@9CJJZ782yrs2Y
Yes unless the reason is discriminatory
@98DRLZ82yrs2Y
@92ZBT8G3yrs3Y
Yes, as long as they are a privately owned business
@8V57CMR4yrs4Y
No, freedom of religion is enjoyed by individuals, not businesses and other organizations.
@8RNX7LQLibertarian4yrs4Y
Yes, unless it is an essential service.
No, all customers deserve to be treated equally, but businesses should be able to reject requests, if the requests are deliberately offensive to the establishment or the owners (ie racial epithets )
@B583ZQGProgressive5 days5D
As long as the job isn’t prone to refusal, like a catholic ob/gyn taking appointments for birth control and refusing to prescribe.
Loading the political themes of users that engaged with this discussion
Loading data...
Join in on more popular conversations.
