Conversation thread

Trump predicts market crash 'never seen before' if Biden wins 2020

He was right – look at our economy. He was right.

Pretty sure we had a MUCH bigger one in 1929….

And the crash from boom (1921 – 1929) to global depression (1929 – 1946) was created by the Federal Reserve (1913 – present)

(1) Herbert Hoover's big government programs rendered worse, certainly, but did not CAUSE the Great Depression

(2) FDR is the worst president in the history of our country, tied perhaps with Lincoln, LBJ, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden – it hard to pick just one "worst president" when so many shredded the constitution to pieces

Hoover did make the Depression all but cemented in history, to say that he “caused it” isn’t far from the truth of the matter, since his attempts to stop it created that big of a crash kn the first place.

FDR is consistently ranked among historians as one of the top 3, while ranking presidents like trump or Buchanan at near the bottom. These rankings have little variation across every single one of the interview groups, and overall, FDR showed amazing public communication, he never fell below 50% approval rates on average, he won the largest margin of the electoral college in history, while also managing to win 4 elections in a row. There’s no contest, the man wins from surface level learning, and it gets better with a light amount of nuance the further in you go.

1: I never denied that Hoover made anything worse – as a free market capitalist, I am not surprised one bit that his big government programs & tariffs made everything worse. Please refrain from Straw Man Fallacies in the future.

2: This entire point is based upon faulty logical – it's the Fallacy of the Appeal to Authority. Just because historians rank him as one of the top 3 (and rank Buchanan and Trump at the bottom) has absolutely NOTHING to do with how good or bad any of these men's presidencies were. I don't give a d–mn about FDR's communication,…  Read more when all of his policies were horrible, you would do well to remember that Hitler was considered a great orator. I don't care if he never fell below 50% approval, or won 4 elections, because that's all the Appeal to Authority Fallacy AGAIN. His popularity has NOTHING to do with how good or bad he was. Finally, as a cherry on the top of this fallacy-flavoured sundae, you threw in an Ad Hominem fallacy claiming that from "surface level learning" it's obvious this man was a great president, thereby (indirectly) accusing me of lacking a surface level understanding, which is not established (and 100% FALSE), and, even if it were true, would do nothing to discredit my arguments, which you should have taken on their own merit as any half-decent debater would.

I also never said you did, I said that I didn’t mean it in the way that he caused it as in he started it as much as he was the final link in the chain to sustain its existence at all. His failure, and FDR’s success shows that big government policy largely depends upon how and when things are done, not if things are done themselves.

It has a LOT to do with logic, since historians are adept and well versed on the past legacy of presidents, and are generally far more fit to make valid opinions on how president’s rank, and to combat opinions, that’s why I listed it’s…  Read more consistency as a factor in their arguments, instead of it being some niche group with no actual knowledge of the subject. A false appeal to authority would be some random CEO or famous person viewed as trustworthy making a statement, but historians from wide reaches of education, when averaged out, tend to make a compelling argument. That compelling argument does make a bit of a correlation to the overall capabilities of presidents, not to mention that bringing a nation out of poverty, winning a war, creating a massive welfare state the public adored, and revitalizing the system tend to help make you look like and BE a good president. Public approval, historian rankings, the actions of the president, and the legacy he left, tend to be a very good indicator of a good president, and his legacy remains well viewed in almost every way, alongside his actions being among the best of any president we’ve had.

I also never said you did,

Strongly implied, make yourself clearer next time.

It has a LOT to do with logic, since historians are adept and well versed on the past legacy of presidents, and are generally far more fit to make valid opinions

I happen to have read biographies of George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant Theodore Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge, Harry S. Truman, Ronald Reagan, Winston Churchill, Napoleon Bonaparte, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Francis Marion, and more, so I myself have more than a backgroun…  Read mored understanding of leadership and the inner workings of politics, prime ministers, and presidencies. You might have noticed I even read biographies of people with whom I disagree – Lincoln, Grant, Roosevelt, Truman, Napoleon, Hamilton – because I wanted a balanced perspective. I have loved history for my entire life, and read many books on it besides these biographies, including military and political histories. So, I do have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject with which to criticise our historians, some of which are morons, and the rest of which are deceitful, hiding Facts that don't fit the leftist narrative from their books and concocting ridiculous narratives themselves, like the Sally Hemings Hoax and the Washington Deism Scam. Your basic argument is that the common man, being a lowly mortal, can't make a "valid opinion" on this subject, so he should just shut up and listen to everything the Wise Oracles who write our history books say. I, however, understand that to be the mentality that gave rise to the likes of Adolf Hitler & Joseph Stalin – people did not learn from history, so they repeated it, at the cost of hundreds of millions of lives. With regards to your Roosevelt electoral Victory point, it was not obvious at all that you were only referring to modern history, you should have made that clearer. I do apologise for any misunderstandings I may have caused – but please for Heaven's sake read what you've written before posting it to insure it's clear of confusing sections like that.

No that’s fair enough, setting up the context tends to be a bit of a difficult point for me, but what I mean when I cited the rankings was that historians do tend to have a higher understanding of the past presidencies, and do make a compelling argument, though they are only one piece, it is a notable and useful point to make.

No it's not. We should independently examine each presidency before we make a decision rather than taking elites' word for it.

That’s why I said it was a factor, a piece of the overall argument, it just means the proof leans, as of yet, towards presidents like FDR overall being the better ones.

It's not a factor when you look at what these men actually did.

Even weighing the pros and cons, I’d gladly consider men like FDR to be on the top, I’d say they’re close to right.

And I wouldn't, because his policies made the Great Depression way worse and prolonged it by years, he destroyed our Gold-based hard currency with a fiat system of money that has spawned every recession since World War II and is used by the government every day to plunder & scam the American People; he knew Pearl Harbour was coming but failed to give any warning because he wanted an excuse to get involved in WWII sooner rather than later, at the cost of over two thousand innocent lives; he carted off a couple million Japanese Americans to internment camps with horrible conditions (ho…  Read morew is it that Reagan, who repaid survivors of this system, is racist, but this horrible dictator, FDR, is NOT after his racially-motivated imprisonment of innocent Japanese-ethnically American citizens?!!!) Also, he censured his political opponents, supported the Communist Iron Curtain over the British Empire, caused 60 deaths when he nationalised the Air Mail Service because the gov't was totally unprepared for it, seized private property, and in general served as one of the most evil & nefarious presidents ever to occupy the White House. He was an authoritarian leftist and socialist zealot who destroyed our constitution and liberty.

The Roosevelt Recession was largely from REDUCING stimulus spending, alongside taxes that didn’t actually go back to the people themselves, since the creation of new agencies and aid became difficult due to conservative coalitions attacking tbe policies in the first place. Gold based currency is just far too concrete to handle a fluid economy, and pretty much the entire market system can’t work nearly as well without a fluid currency, switching back is frequently regarded as one of the worst economic decisions since pure central planning, which I don’t support. He didn&rsquo…  Read more;t know about Pearl Harbor, the entire military swears on that fact, they had the messages that could’ve prevented it, sure, but Japanese chatter was encoded, and the info that would’ve prevented it was only capable of being decided years after the event, so to say that he “knew” would be both misguided and inaccurate. The internment camps were probably his biggest mistake, though he wished to play it safe, that was almost entirely due to the recommendations of his military generals, not himself, he went along with it because that seemed like the most sure fire way to prevent espionage and treason, though he was hesitant to do so. Reagan was himself racist, an attribute not debunked by his treatment of Japanese internment victims, as he had a long history of disparaging African delegates to the UN, he employed methods of systematic oppression of communities of color, creating a war on poverty that only ever hurt the poor, more often being, communities of color. He censured a small portion of the media by using the FCC to aid his views, PRECISELY the same way that trump has expressly planned to do in Project 2025, to use the media to change the window of what’s considered acceptable. I could easily name worse characters as president, and FDR was not one of them.