Should the federal government continue to give tax credits and subsidies to the wind power industry?
Mitt Romney recently said that, if elected President, he would end a tax credit subsidizing the wind energy industry. This prompted a backlash from many farmers in midwestern swing states including Iowa, Ohio and Indiana. By installing wind turbines on their properties farmers can earn up to tens of thousands of dollars per year in tax credits. Supporters, including President Obama and Green Party nominee Jill Stein, say the wind energy industry is responsible for creating thousands of high-tech jobs in the region and is a crucial income alternative for farmers during droughts. Detractors, including Mr. Romney and Gary Johnson, point out that these tax credits have cost the federal government $14 billion since 2008 and that wind technology has yet to develop into a reliable energy alternative to traditional sources such as coal and nuclear power.
Which candidates do you side with on wind energy? Answer this question in the Environmental Issues section and find out.
If it was such a good alternative source of income for farmers, then they would be doing it already. All subsidies need to be gone with. All they do is save the failing at the cost of the successful, giving them an unfair advantage in the market place. The losers? All of the people in that market.
Ben Iwen
I wouldn't say keep or throw out all subsidies across the board. I think they need to be looked at individually.
Joni Hunt Sheridan
Why should the government be picking winners and losers with my money? Free markets work best without government. Whales used to be a big source of oil until the were almost wiped out, then a new source of oil was found as well as a bi-product called gasoline.
Donald Webb
On another note, if you're concerned about your money, perhaps you should quit wasting it on senseless garbage every day. I guarantee you that you waste far more money in your personal life than the government does with your tax money.
Patrick Hughes
Overlooked is that the alternate energy subsidies have reduced the use of coal which is a dirty, polluting resource. The reduction along with natural gas could be an answer to the Planet's cleanup. Subsidies actually have worked in this instance. We need to keep it up to keep coal from coming "back on line".
Jerry Irons
Hope it is a warm winter, then. Last year was just a fluke.
Phyllis Borchers
No natural gas prices have fallen by 2/3s thus making it cheaper and more cost effective. Again proving the market and not the government are the best way to deliver cleaner dependable energy.
Donald Webb
Shh don't tell people the truth. They might actually do some research before they post next time!
Ben Iwen
JHS Good article. I have read the same. After some really, really rough math, the California Hi Speed Rail could be financed with the subsidies that are presently given the farmers, most of whom are opposed to it! S
Jerry Irons
Wind power has a long way to go before it becomes a reliable energy source. During cold and windless conditions it costs more energy to keep the turbines warm and turning then the power the output.
April Symoens Zeman
April, take a look at what Germany is doing. http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2012/04/16/germany-target-100-renewable-electricity-supply-2050/ http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2011/09/germany-continues-exporting-electricity-renewables-driving-down-prices-despite-closing-reactors http://rt.com/news/solar-energy-record-break-332/ http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14933985,00.html http://cleantechnica.com/2011/06/20/germany-to-store-wind-power-in-mountains/ http://cleantechnica.com/2011/10/12/hydrogen-storage-fuel-cell-system-to-smooth-out-intermittent-wind-power-in-germany/
Bruce Dickey
Interesting articles. I like the mountain idea a lot!
April Symoens Zeman
I know they have omni-directional wind turbines used on rooftops. If they could make those large scale, that would definitely solve the one issue of turning them to the wind.
April Symoens Zeman
No It has been found that they are NOT useful in adding electricity to the grid. Hawaii had them just sitting and falling apart. Not to mention looking bad. We had hundreds going out to west Texas, funded by private donations. They were given a year and were unable to be of use. Why should tax payers dish out money for something of no benefit except to the producers.
Phyllis Borchers
Gee, maybe it was how they were used or ignored maybe. Tasmania which boasts of it's clean green renewable energy has had wind power for several years and is building another wind farm now.
Kj Blunt
Funny , they work very well in Germany. http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,14933985,00.html
Bruce Dickey
I'd only put Danish Wind Turbines in Hawaii, theirs are all out at sea, so they can stand the salt and humidity.
Robert T. Boyter
YES!
Marilyn Gross Patete
We've become so used to "instant gratification" in this country that if something doesn't work in a couple of year's time, we throw it out without giving it a chance to work out the kinks. I say there is enough good information about wind energy to continue supporting it until it can sustain itself. I am hoping for the day when consumers can purchase them to individually power a home. I'm betting that even if we have to use other forms of power intermittently, it will still be cheaper and cleaner in the long run to have the wind turbines.
Joni Hunt Sheridan
You go right ahead and continue supporting it, for that is your choice. However, I see it as a bad product that needs much innovation if it is to work, so I do not want my tax money to go to something that is fine in the free market, let alone a product that is not fine. If I am wrong, if it was truly only your money as an investment into a wind power company, you would benefit immensely from the profit you would receive, whereas I would not. However, if that company fails, which is perfectly normal in a free market place, you would be out your money, and I would still have mine.
Ben Iwen
I was involved in one of the first wind farms in Palm Springs CA. 1976. Too expensive then and nearly 40 subsidized years later still too expensive!
Roger Reid
As a person who I guess we could say "was there", was the energy output worth the money put into it?
Andrew Pometta
Wind is one of the least expensive ways we have to produce electricity, its clean and won't run out. Here is a link to a cost study that is a few years old, wind is even cheaper now. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/73144383/Lazard-Levelized-Energy-Cost-Calculation
Bruce Dickey
@ Andrew, depends how much cleaner air is worth to people, so that question is a bit subjective. We don't have the full perspective on how expensive health care costs for burning fossil fuels really are, or the other costs we are incurring for having an environment that's deviated from equilibrium.
Patrick Hughes
At 3.5 Billion per year it should be producing around 43.75 billion Kw annually to compare to public power (about $0.08 per Kwh). Now consider it takes over 313 Million Kwh just to power our little town of 15, 000 people for a year. That would power our city for 140 years!!!. You think these wind farms will ever even break even on a cost (of credits) basis? These numbers aren't even considering the cost of the machines themselves or that they will never last long, not to mention maintenance costs per year!!!
Robert Thompson
Well actually it's a strange question! I don't see the utility bills getting smaller , in face Ca is going to heist the bills by 35% in october! insane highway thievery! Guess it's the same way I feel about continually throwingour youth's lives, and Taxpayer $$$$ to nations that absolutely despise us! So I guess the answer is a resounding NO? Fer Sewer!
Suezenne Fordham
I agree with what Joni Hunt Sheridan said , almost word for word! - "We've become so used to "instant gratification" in this country that if something doesn't work in a couple of year's time, we throw it out without giving it a chance to work out the kinks. I say there is enough good information about wind energy to continue supporting it until it can sustain itself. I am hoping for the day when consumers can purchase them to individually power a home. I'm betting that even if we have to use other forms of power intermittently, it will still be cheaper and cleaner in the long run to have the wind turbines." - it's true, that we need to give this more time. I am seeing lots of "wind farms" in the midwest. We need to give this a chance. Wind is a renewable and sustainable source, and coal is not... there's only a limited amount of coal in the world.
Karen Pilipuf Matus
And Karen these guys huffing and puffing about free market this and that--big bunch of baloney. Both petroleum and natural gas receive government subsidies. Petroleum has made billions on top of the subsidies. Last Spring President Obama announced support for a senate bill to end subsidies for large petroleum companies. Guess what--the bill didn't make it out of committee.
Joni Hunt Sheridan
First off, I support getting rid of all subsidies(you replied to that comment btw). Second, who is the head of and has the majority members of the US senate committee on energy and national resources? Obama knew that it wasn't going to get out of the committee, and since it is a republican majority congress(even though the dems have a slight majority in the senate), he could then blame the repubs.
Ben Iwen
Yes, I did reply to that, and I very responsibly said that subsidies needed to be evaluated individually. You, Ben Iwen, responded to Donald Webb's post about natural gas prices having fallen by 2/3rds without government help by saying very patronizingly, "Shh don't tell people the truth. They might actually do some research before they post next time! This response affirmed Mr. Webb's erroneous statement, because in fact, the natural gas industry does receive government subsidies. So you are against all subsidies? You need to respond again to Mr. Webb and tell him that neither he nor anyone should enjoy that 2/3rd cut in natural gas prices because it was propped up by the US Government. I made a mistake about that Senate bill regarding petroleum subsidies being defeated in committee. It, in fact, did make it to the floor of the Senate where it was voted down 51 to 47. Included in the 51 were 47 Republicans and 4 Democrats (one of those Dems is from TX and one from Alaska--the other two from VA and NB). So the Dems would be the scapegoats in this instance. And could it be that the president actually supported the bill regardless of whether he had a scapegoat or not?
Joni Hunt Sheridan
Wind is an excellent local energy source and one of several local, renewable sources that need to be promoted just as we discourage petroleum. Big oil needs no subsidies of any kind for trapping our economies, for dictating a colonial foreign policy that leads the US into war for profit and for spreading disease and destruction throughout the scope and existence of the petroleum industry.
Gary Sanchez
While I do agree with the foreign policy part of your post, the rest of it is just personal opinion. Why should we discourage petroleum? Because big green says it is bad? You want to replace one "Big" with another "Big"? Why do you think the private sector is hardly touching this type of energy production? It is an extremely inefficient way to make power. Look up how many "winners" the government has already subsidized. Last I checked, those "winners" aren't even running anymore.
Ben Iwen
Personally, I discourage petroleum because my son nearly died from leukemia, which is mostly caused by benzene form gasoline. And, I generally oppose petroleum because it contributes to climate change and destroys every local ecosystem wherever petroleum is found, transported and used.
Gary Sanchez
@ Ben, the private sector isn't touching it because we aren't paying the full costs of fossils directly. We don't pay many costs at the pump for the damages that burning fossils are causing. This is a matter of a public good (the atmosphere) not being appropriately represented economically/legally, not a matter of wind being inferior.
Patrick Hughes
Agreed, health issues exists to our way of life. Wind is not teh answer. Do you use electricity? Of course you do! If we all knew just how much our daily routine depends on big oil to produce the things we all depend on and need... Eveything I can think of has a trade off. No I don't like the trade offs you mentioned, but a lot of the things we take for granted on a daily basis are grounded in big oil and that is a very broad brush you are using : "destroys every local ecosystem wherever petroleum is found, transported and used".
Robert Thompson
Ben, we understand that your intro to micro/macro professors have discouraged the use of subsidies and government interference. I too believe we should not subsidize everything. However, to turn a blind eye to climate change for the sake of a few wind farms failing is ill minded. This subsidy is about getting this clean energy source on its toes, and the fact that you even mentioned petroleum shows how little you know of this subject. I would rather have Big Green be the "Big" than Big Oil Companies be the "Big". At least one of them is for good cause.
Josh Eiermann
Yes I think they should invest more to upgrade & increase these & soloar power.
Dora Trivett
Investing and subsidizing are not the same. Investing is giving initial money while looking for a higher rate of return on that money. Subsidizing is making it cheaper for that industry to create a good. What our government is doing with "green" energy is picking certain well-connected "green" energy firms as "winners". If you look up who these "winners" are now, you will see that they are not in business anymore. remember that government subsidies drives out those private firms that cannot compete with government subsidized firms (this is just one reason that only 5% of our population are farmers btw).
Ben Iwen
Ben Iwen The ones that are out of business were solar panel manufactures, they were unable to compete with Chinese solar panels because China heavily subsidized PV panel manufacture there and flooded the market. Solar power plants here that have received start-up cash from the government are doing just fine.
Bruce Dickey
Were sitting on a 300 years supply of natural gas, coal and oil in the United States alone that costs no tax payer money and there is technology to get it. But instead we give tax breaks and government subsidies to wind and solar companies, how does that make sense? Maybe it is time for the government to get out of the energy business and let the market do its job. As for the jobs it creates, an employee at any of the bankrupt green companies if it was a good deal.
Donald Webb
Do your research Donald. Natural gas and petroleum companies have been getting government subsidies for years. So that "300" year supply has cost tax payer money.
Joni Hunt Sheridan
I agree but, they have paid far more in taxes than we will ever get from any wind mill. I say end all subsidies period and deregulate gas and oil and let the competition begin.
Donald Webb
Your solution, is like eating out every day, for every meal and a cheap meal at that, instead of taking the time to cook a good meal, an a willingness to pay or work a little more for that healthier diets that will treat you better in the long run. And this should have nothing to do with being a health nut, it is a simple matter of taking care of oneself. Coal, gas, and oil should be left more and more for reserves in economics energy crisis'. The pressure to live off renewable sources will cause innovation and reduce wasteful consumption. As any good diets, we can not cut ourselves off too quickly, and just as it has been going, gradually making transitions, perhaps retreating from certain prospects but continually looking and trying when good opportunities arise. This is progress, and your solution of saturating ourselves with an easy meal will solve nothing but an appetite.
Dan Fouts
Joni Hunt Sheridan Actually the "natural gas and petroleum companies" do not get subsidies,and have not been getting subsidies in the past-what they get are tax credits for monies spent on exploration, research and development,and depreciation of equipment-the same tax breakes any company that does manufacturing etc. gets. Wind power,on the other hand gets direct government funding just to install and operate turbines-BIG difference
Starvin Larry
And you, Donald Webb will be drinking contaminated water and eating three eyed fish. So let them drill, drill, drill...in your back yard.
Daripa Jack
I have no problem with them drilling. I agree lets get more oil and gas and get out of the middle east.
Donald Webb
Donald Webb Big Oil and Big Coal, and probably Big Gas has been subsidized since the 1920's. And they don't pay their share in taxes, the consumer does. Additionally, thousands of Oil Companies went bankrupt over the last 100 years, it's only the survivors that own the game now. The fact a Green Company or 2 or 10 goes bankrupt is no reason not to pursue Green initiatives. And if all that Gas and Oil is so available, why are gas prices so high? Gouging by Subsidized Oil Companies?
Robert T. Boyter
Those natural gas supplies, using current methods, will pollute already dwindling fresh water supplies. Natural gas CAN be decently okay, but the realities of current extraction methods are a serious risk to public health. That aside, these are all horrendously crude forms of energy production. We have options whose true cost/benefit ratios are far better available, it's just that many of the costs for fossils are not factored into their prices.
Patrick Hughes
If something works the private sector is on top of it , trying to promote it, trying to make it more accessable, making more, making jobs, making money, paying taxes. You don't see this happening with wind power = why? because it is not working, it maybe profitable for some because the government is paying them = but it is not beneficial for the whole country. Wind is not a constant and personnally I think they destroy the scenic landscape (an eye sore!)
Patricia L Tanyhill
Nuclear power plants are not perminant, 1/3 of the ones we have now are close to or are past thier life cycle, like the space shuttle and out national power grid. What's next?. Residue from temporary nuclear power is a perminant problem. That like social security if its put off to our Mia-education children to figure out will fail. Bottom line, the hard right over the easy, convenient wrong... I am not anti nuclear, oil or coal but all those industrial had magor funding help from the government befor they became monopolies.
Craig Starr
go obama!
Don Lafave
Preachin don!
Hayden Beaulieu
Let's see the proof. The advantages, the disadvantages and mostly the bottom line. Kinda like demanding that Mitt Romney show his tax returns but not showing President Obama's. Time to tell the truth about the consequences of electric cars also and what happens to the batteries once they are used up. I'm just asking cause I truly do not know the answer, and I'm not alone.
Pat Byrne
here's a site I follow that is against solar & wind farms/pro-rooftop solar - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-the-Desert-Tortoise/100188360049479?ref=ts (pretty pictures, too! lol)
Caroline Janelle
The batteries are recycled.
Bruce Dickey
the government can't do anything right. This is a health disaster waiting to happen. Research the health effects of the sub-sonic vibrtions from windfarms. people are dying from this s**t. Once the govt. gets involved, all research and evidence re this is censored, as with ALL government programs, from vaccinations to wars.
Paul E. Smith
I have read all the following comments, interestingly enough, none of you personally have given any of your own money to this effort. I personally have given to this failure for three years. Here in Texas, our local electric provider offers these green ideas, and wind turbines were encourged as here in West Texas, there is lots of land, flat, and windy. All that should encourage lots of electricity, so for all you green xxx, it is still being tried, I added 2.00 every month over my electric bill, just for this purpose, as did many others. Do you know, that every year so far, that's ten years, not only did we not produce any electricity that could be used for anything else, yes all it produced was used to keep those turbines going when the wind wasn't enough, BUT.
Karen Kriner-Waits
sorry I hit the post prematurely, BUT the cost for more electricity to keep them going was about $500,000., per year. So my answer is this. If the profit-making electric companies want to invest THEIR MONEY, have at it but no more of my money, the small amount I gave freely, or the large amount our government gives quite freely. Our current president, whom I voted for of my own free will, because I believed in the changes he said he was bringing, but like these turbines use up the wind, and cost all of the rest of us hard working people more money, are useless. So far in 3 1/2 years he has funded with our money 12, yes 12 bankrupt companies, to keep encouraging the green people. I believe that we must makes changes to preserve what God has provided as long as we care for it, and the Indian part of me cries out to see the destruction of coal stripping, so there has to be new ways to use the energies God has given us, without reducing us back to the dark ages. And for those of you who say pooh, go live in Calif. where when they close the nuclear plants producing electricity, and there is then enough electricity for 2-3 small cities, it will sure be dark, no tv, phones, refrigerators, heat dryers, etrc etc. I hope this sheds a little light on this a very serious problem.
Karen Kriner-Waits
yes, we need to keep trying to find more alternative means of power.. it would be a better, unpolluted world if we could get totally rid of fossil fuels....I love the wind idea for towns to be able to have their own power source.
Renee' Downs
What if we got a giant fan powered by a windmill to blow wind against the windmill? UNLIMITED ENERGY ZOMG.
Robbie Loucks
I side with President Obama. The sooner we harness renewable sources of energy, the safer and healthier we will be as a nation, and as an economy.
Carol Lee Doeden
They kill thousands of Bald Eagles every year! Nice!
Jeff Macri
We can pull that amount of money needed for developing clean wind energy out of the subsidies that Big Oil companies get from the government easily. I think funding wind energy with tax credits is important for the industry to grow to become something that we as a country can rely on that is much cleaner for the environment than drilling and chemically preparing oil.
Stephanie Angel
The Dutch has been using wind power for centuries.........................that is why they are such a world power, NOT!
Gary Cooper
I've run a business for 20 years. If Americans would be willing to pay MORE for electricity it may work. It's a bad time to experiment.
Ronnie Harrison